Discussion:
Shot in Smoothbore Musket
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p***@hotmail.com
2017-04-26 07:31:44 UTC
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Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
"fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
any degree?

thank you,

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
r***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-04-26 17:49:53 UTC
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26 April 2017 at 7:31, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
Shot in Smoothbore Musket (at least in part)

#Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
#any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
#that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
#"fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
#any degree?

Much the same as using "Shot Shells" in any firearm
TimR
2017-04-26 17:49:54 UTC
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On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 3:31:47 AM UTC-4, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
# Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
# any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
# that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
# "fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
# any degree?
#
# thank you,
#
# Peter Wezeman
# anti-social Darwinist

A Brown Bess is about .75 caliber, right? A 20 gauge shotgun is only .63. A 12 gauge is .729.

So it would seem like you could put enough shot in it easily.

I think you'd have a bit of trouble with the slow lock time of a flintlock though.
r***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-04-26 18:47:29 UTC
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26 April 2017 at 17:49, TimR wrote:
Re: Shot in Smoothbore Musket (at least in part)

#On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 3:31:47 AM UTC-4, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
## Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
## any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
## that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
## "fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
## any degree?
##
## thank you,
##
## Peter Wezeman
## anti-social Darwinist
#
#A Brown Bess is about .75 caliber, right? A 20 gauge shotgun is only .63. A 12 gauge is .729.
#
#So it would seem like you could put enough shot in it easily.
#
#I think you'd have a bit of trouble with the slow lock time of a flintlock though.

The barrel is far longer so a tighter spread patern
Diogenes
2017-04-26 22:45:43 UTC
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:47:29 +0000 (UTC), ***@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

#26 April 2017 at 17:49, TimR wrote:
#Re: Shot in Smoothbore Musket (at least in part)
#
##On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 3:31:47 AM UTC-4, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
### Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
### any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
### that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
### "fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
### any degree?
###
### thank you,
###
### Peter Wezeman
### anti-social Darwinist
##
##A Brown Bess is about .75 caliber, right? A 20 gauge shotgun is only .63. A 12 gauge is .729.
##
##So it would seem like you could put enough shot in it easily.
##
##I think you'd have a bit of trouble with the slow lock time of a flintlock though.
#
#The barrel is far longer so a tighter spread patern
#

Barrel length has nothing to do with pattern size/density. A choke at
the muzzle however does.
r***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-04-27 09:13:43 UTC
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26 April 2017 at 22:45, Diogenes wrote:
Re: Shot in Smoothbore Musket (at least in part)

#On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:47:29 +0000 (UTC), ***@yahoo.co.uk
#wrote:

##The barrel is far longer so a tighter spread patern

#Barrel length has nothing to do with pattern size/density. A choke at
#the muzzle however does.

I see what you are saying, but if you have ever tried shot shells (in normal
firearms) you WILL see a difference with barrel length, 7.5" has a bigger
spread than 16" which in turn is larger than a 24" (tested with .44mag &
.357mag @ 10yards)
Diogenes
2017-04-27 21:10:41 UTC
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On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:13:43 +0000 (UTC), ***@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

#26 April 2017 at 22:45, Diogenes wrote:
#Re: Shot in Smoothbore Musket (at least in part)
#
##On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:47:29 +0000 (UTC), ***@yahoo.co.uk
##wrote:
#
###The barrel is far longer so a tighter spread patern
#
##Barrel length has nothing to do with pattern size/density. A choke at
##the muzzle however does.
#
#I see what you are saying, but if you have ever tried shot shells (in normal
#firearms) you WILL see a difference with barrel length, 7.5" has a bigger
#spread than 16" which in turn is larger than a 24" (tested with .44mag &
#.357mag @ 10yards)
#
Never used those revolver shot loads so can't comment. My guess would
be that the increased muzzle blast in the shorter barrel is disrupting
the shot capsule. Just a guess, though.
Gunner Asch
2017-04-26 22:45:44 UTC
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:47:29 +0000 (UTC), ***@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

#26 April 2017 at 17:49, TimR wrote:
#Re: Shot in Smoothbore Musket (at least in part)
#
##On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 3:31:47 AM UTC-4, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
### Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
### any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
### that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
### "fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
### any degree?
###
### thank you,
###
### Peter Wezeman
### anti-social Darwinist
##
##A Brown Bess is about .75 caliber, right? A 20 gauge shotgun is only .63. A 12 gauge is .729.
##
##So it would seem like you could put enough shot in it easily.
##
##I think you'd have a bit of trouble with the slow lock time of a flintlock though.
#
#The barrel is far longer so a tighter spread patern
#
#

Not really. No choke
Gunner Asch
2017-04-26 19:48:08 UTC
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:31:44 +0000 (UTC), ***@hotmail.com
wrote:

#Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
#any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
#that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
#"fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
#any degree?
#
#thank you,
#
#Peter Wezeman
#anti-social Darwinist

Yes indeed. You simply load an overpowder wad, the shot and then a
overshot wad so the shot doesnt dribble out the end of your barrel.

Some..some modern plastic shot cups may fit as well, in some
smoothbores..depending on caliber of your barrel

This may be of some interest to you...

http://traditionalmuzzleloader.com/index.php/loading-the-smoothbore-gun
p***@hotmail.com
2017-04-28 09:31:34 UTC
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On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 2:48:09 PM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:
# On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:31:44 +0000 (UTC), ***@hotmail.com
# wrote:
#
# #Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
# #any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
# #that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
# #"fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
# #any degree?
# #
# #thank you,
# #
# #Peter Wezeman
# #anti-social Darwinist
#
# Yes indeed. You simply load an overpowder wad, the shot and then a
# overshot wad so the shot doesnt dribble out the end of your barrel.
#
# Some..some modern plastic shot cups may fit as well, in some
# smoothbores..depending on caliber of your barrel
#
# This may be of some interest to you...
#
# http://traditionalmuzzleloader.com/index.php/loading-the-smoothbore-gun

Thank you for posting this. According to your link, choke boring was
not used until 1874, so all shotguns up to then, which is well after
percussion ignition replaced flintlocks, were cylinder bore just like
muskets. The difficulties of wing shooting with a musket then
would be the weight, balance, and other handling qualities
compared to a dedicated fowling piece. Anyone tried this?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
handling qualities of the musket
Gunner Asch
2017-05-06 22:19:51 UTC
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:31:34 +0000 (UTC), ***@hotmail.com
wrote:

#On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 2:48:09 PM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:
## On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:31:44 +0000 (UTC), ***@hotmail.com
## wrote:
##
## #Does a classic flintlock musket such as the English "Brown Bess" have
## #any useful capability as a shotgun when loaded with bird shot? I know
## #that people in the muzzle loader era did hunt birds with flintlock
## #"fowling pieces". Could a musket replicate this performance to
## #any degree?
## #
## #thank you,
## #
## #Peter Wezeman
## #anti-social Darwinist
##
## Yes indeed. You simply load an overpowder wad, the shot and then a
## overshot wad so the shot doesnt dribble out the end of your barrel.
##
## Some..some modern plastic shot cups may fit as well, in some
## smoothbores..depending on caliber of your barrel
##
## This may be of some interest to you...
##
## http://traditionalmuzzleloader.com/index.php/loading-the-smoothbore-gun
#
#Thank you for posting this. According to your link, choke boring was
#not used until 1874, so all shotguns up to then, which is well after
#percussion ignition replaced flintlocks, were cylinder bore just like
#muskets. The difficulties of wing shooting with a musket then
#would be the weight, balance, and other handling qualities
#compared to a dedicated fowling piece. Anyone tried this?
#
#Peter Wezeman
#anti-social Darwinist
#handling qualities of the musket

Yes, Ive hunted quail, pheasants and duck with both a replica Brown
Bess and a blackpowder percussion shotgun. (as well as a few others)

The percussion shotgun was far far easier to take birds down out to
30 yrds or more..as there was no "lock time" to deal with. Also..use
at least (2) sizes heavier shot than you would with a cartridge
shotgun. If you hit a critter with a #6 versus (2) 7 1/2s.....it
takes them down as well or better. Dont expect tight patterns...so
use a lot of heavy shot. Which black powder will allow you to do..put
more shot down range than will smokeless cartridges.

It should be also mentioned that swinging a LONG heavy Brown Bess is
much more difficult for good hit probabilities than a dedicated
shotgun with shorter barrel (s) and lighter construction.

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