Discussion:
Need help with basic question
(too old to reply)
o***@hotmail.com
2016-07-04 00:33:40 UTC
Permalink
My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
garden from groundhogs.

The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.

In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.

A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.

The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
WMR round.

Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
description is not too clear.)

I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.

[MODERATOR: No, don't try stuffing those .22 WMR rounds in your rifle
since that could well be very unsafe. The manual you have likely says
the model rifle you have could be had in any one of those calibers -
not that all are interchangeable. Check the markings which are likely
stamped on your barrel to confirm what your rifle specifically takes.
Since you have already been using .22 rimfire without issue, then I'd
bet that is what it will say there. Always confirm that the markings
on your firearm match the ammunition you buy to use in it. ]
Just Wondering
2016-07-04 11:16:28 UTC
Permalink
On 7/3/2016 6:33 PM, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
# My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
# garden from groundhogs.
#
# The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
# Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.
#
# In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
# I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.
#
# A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.
#
# The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
# fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
# magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
# WMR round.
#
# Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
# not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
# fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
# where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
# description is not too clear.)
#
# I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.
#
If you look in wikipedia for the dimensions of those cartridges, you'll
find there are major differences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HM2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Magnum_Rimfire

It is not possible to make a single chamber that will handle all of the
variations in length, width, bullet dimension, etc. In particular:

The .22LR has an overall length of 1.0", a case length of .613", and a
base diameter of .226"
The .22WMR has an overall length of 1.35", a case length of 1.055" and a
base diameter of .242".
With those dimensions, it is not physically possible to fit the .22WMR
in a .22LR chamber.
Gunner Asch
2016-07-05 16:04:42 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 11:16:28 +0000 (UTC), Just Wondering
<***@comcast.net> wrote:

#On 7/3/2016 6:33 PM, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
## My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
## garden from groundhogs.
##
## The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
## Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.
##
## In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
## I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.
##
## A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.
##
## The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
## fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
## magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
## WMR round.
##
## Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
## not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
## fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
## where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
## description is not too clear.)
##
## I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.
##
#If you look in wikipedia for the dimensions of those cartridges, you'll
#find there are major differences.
#https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR
#https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HM2
#https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle
#https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Magnum_Rimfire
#
#It is not possible to make a single chamber that will handle all of the
#variations in length, width, bullet dimension, etc. In particular:
#
#The .22LR has an overall length of 1.0", a case length of .613", and a
#base diameter of .226"
#The .22WMR has an overall length of 1.35", a case length of 1.055" and a
#base diameter of .242".
#With those dimensions, it is not physically possible to fit the .22WMR
#in a .22LR chamber.

No..its not. If it were..it would have been done ages ago.
Gunner Asch
2016-07-04 11:16:31 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 00:33:40 +0000 (UTC), ***@hotmail.com
wrote:

#My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
#garden from groundhogs.
#
#The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
#Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.

NO!!!
#
#In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
#I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.

That is ALL that that particular model will shoot!!

The cases and projectiles in the other calibers are SIGNIFICANLTY
different~!! You have a generic manual for that rifle that covers
ALL the various models.
#
#A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.
#
#The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
#fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
#magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
#WMR round.
#
#Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
#not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
#fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
#where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
#description is not too clear.)

The chamber for your rifle will NOT chamber any cartridge than the 22
short, long and long rifle. Period. End program. Full stop!

#
#I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.
#
# [MODERATOR: No, don't try stuffing those .22 WMR rounds in your rifle
# since that could well be very unsafe. The manual you have likely says
# the model rifle you have could be had in any one of those calibers -
# not that all are interchangeable. Check the markings which are likely
# stamped on your barrel to confirm what your rifle specifically takes.
# Since you have already been using .22 rimfire without issue, then I'd
# bet that is what it will say there. Always confirm that the markings
# on your firearm match the ammunition you buy to use in it. ]

Very well stated!!
Bert
2016-07-04 15:23:22 UTC
Permalink
In news:nlcat4$4ik$***@news.albasani.net ***@hotmail.com wrote:

# The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22
# Winchester Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17
# Mach 2.

They're just telling you that Marlin offers that rifle in different
models that use those calibers, and that the general instructions in the
manual apply to all of those models.

It absolutely does not mean that any single rifle can use ammunition in
all those calibers.
--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
the_shadow
2016-07-05 21:33:36 UTC
Permalink
On 2016-07-04, Bert <***@iphouse.com> wrote:
# In news:nlcat4$4ik$***@news.albasani.net ***@hotmail.com wrote:
#
# # The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22
# # Winchester Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17
# # Mach 2.
#
# They're just telling you that Marlin offers that rifle in different
# models that use those calibers, and that the general instructions in the
# manual apply to all of those models.
#
# It absolutely does not mean that any single rifle can use ammunition in
# all those calibers.
#

That mistake has been made by inexperienced shooters in regard to the
M70 Winchester
--
Bob Holtzman
No one in particular
2016-07-08 00:32:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 8:33:42 PM UTC-4, No one in particular wrote:
# My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
# garden from groundhogs.
#
# The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
# Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.
#
# In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
# I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.
#
# A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.
#
# The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
# fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
# magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
# WMR round.
#
# Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
# not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
# fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
# where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
# description is not too clear.)
#
# I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.
#
# [MODERATOR: No, don't try stuffing those .22 WMR rounds in your rifle
# since that could well be very unsafe. The manual you have likely says
# the model rifle you have could be had in any one of those calibers -
# not that all are interchangeable. Check the markings which are likely
# stamped on your barrel to confirm what your rifle specifically takes.
# Since you have already been using .22 rimfire without issue, then I'd
# bet that is what it will say there. Always confirm that the markings
# on your firearm match the ammunition you buy to use in it. ]



Okay -- THANKS TO ALL WHO RESPONDED.

Also -- I posted this question again, sorry for the repitition.

After CAREFULLY reading the owner's manual, I see it says the rifle is chamber for xxx, xxx, xxx, OR xxx.

That's what I thought but I wanted to ask the experts.

Thanks everyone.
Brian Whatcott
2016-07-13 10:16:46 UTC
Permalink
On 7/3/2016 7:33 PM, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
# My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
# garden from groundhogs.
#
# The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
# Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.
#
# In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
# I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.
#
# A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.
#
# The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
# fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
# magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
# WMR round.
#
# Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
# not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
# fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
# where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
# description is not too clear.)
#
# I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.
#
# [MODERATOR: No, don't try stuffing those .22 WMR rounds in your rifle
# since that could well be very unsafe. The manual you have likely says
# the model rifle you have could be had in any one of those calibers -
# not that all are interchangeable. Check the markings which are likely
# stamped on your barrel to confirm what your rifle specifically takes.
# Since you have already been using .22 rimfire without issue, then I'd
# bet that is what it will say there. Always confirm that the markings
# on your firearm match the ammunition you buy to use in it. ]
#

There is a case where two different rounds work. I have a 357 revolver
which CAN fire 38 special rounds. There is an issue though - if you have
folks fire a 38 series, then a 357 series, I found the gun would not
load a round in every chamber without being cleaned out first.

Brian W
Gunner Asch
2016-07-13 11:33:27 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 10:16:46 +0000 (UTC), Brian Whatcott
<***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

#On 7/3/2016 7:33 PM, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
## My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
## garden from groundhogs.
##
## The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
## Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.
##
## In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
## I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.
##
## A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.
##
## The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
## fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
## magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
## WMR round.
##
## Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
## not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
## fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
## where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
## description is not too clear.)
##
## I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.
##
## [MODERATOR: No, don't try stuffing those .22 WMR rounds in your rifle
## since that could well be very unsafe. The manual you have likely says
## the model rifle you have could be had in any one of those calibers -
## not that all are interchangeable. Check the markings which are likely
## stamped on your barrel to confirm what your rifle specifically takes.
## Since you have already been using .22 rimfire without issue, then I'd
## bet that is what it will say there. Always confirm that the markings
## on your firearm match the ammunition you buy to use in it. ]
##
#
#There is a case where two different rounds work. I have a 357 revolver
#which CAN fire 38 special rounds. There is an issue though - if you have
#folks fire a 38 series, then a 357 series, I found the gun would not
#load a round in every chamber without being cleaned out first.
#
#Brian W

44 Magnum will accept 44 Special....there are a number of similar
combinations that will work.

Then there is the Medusa M-47....


Frank
2016-07-13 22:55:58 UTC
Permalink
On 7/13/2016 6:16 AM, Brian Whatcott wrote:
# On 7/3/2016 7:33 PM, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
# # My only firearm is a Marlin model 981T bolt-action .22 with which I defend my
# # garden from groundhogs.
# #
# # The owner's manual says the rifle is chambered for .22 rimfire, .22 Winchester
# # Magnum Rimfire (WMR), .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire, or .17 Mach 2.
# #
# # In the 5 years I've owned the gun, all I use is standard .22 LR. Currently
# # I'm using Federal ammo, 40 grain bullet, 1280 fps muzzle velocity.
# #
# # A friend gave me some .22 WMR, 30grain, 2050 fps.
# #
# # The WMR round is quite a bit longer than the .22 LR I'm using. Will it really
# # fit in my rifle? I haven't tried to load the WMR rounds into the tubular
# # magazine but the cutout in the mag where I load ammo is not as long as the
# # WMR round.
# #
# # Also -- if the chamber is long enough to accommodate the WMR round, does this
# # not mean that the LR round, when seated in the chamber, does not completely
# # fill the chamber thereby leading to lead fouling around the area of the chamber
# # where the bullet enters the rifle barrel after firing? (Sorry if this
# # description is not too clear.)
# #
# # I thank you for your assistance, though the groundhogs may not be happy.
# #
# # [MODERATOR: No, don't try stuffing those .22 WMR rounds in your rifle
# # since that could well be very unsafe. The manual you have likely says
# # the model rifle you have could be had in any one of those calibers -
# # not that all are interchangeable. Check the markings which are likely
# # stamped on your barrel to confirm what your rifle specifically takes.
# # Since you have already been using .22 rimfire without issue, then I'd
# # bet that is what it will say there. Always confirm that the markings
# # on your firearm match the ammunition you buy to use in it. ]
# #
#
# There is a case where two different rounds work. I have a 357 revolver
# which CAN fire 38 special rounds. There is an issue though - if you have
# folks fire a 38 series, then a 357 series, I found the gun would not
# load a round in every chamber without being cleaned out first.
#
# Brian W
#

I hated to toss brass that was lasting forever but tossed my 38 and 44
specials a few year ago because of the ring problem. No problem
downloading the magnum calibers and not getting those damn rings.
Gunner Asch
2016-07-14 21:12:26 UTC
Permalink
## There is a case where two different rounds work. I have a 357 revolver
## which CAN fire 38 special rounds. There is an issue though - if you have
## folks fire a 38 series, then a 357 series, I found the gun would not
## load a round in every chamber without being cleaned out first.
##
## Brian W
##
#
#I hated to toss brass that was lasting forever but tossed my 38 and 44
#specials a few year ago because of the ring problem. No problem
#downloading the magnum calibers and not getting those damn rings.

You 'tossed it?"??? Blink blink....huh?

Whatever for? Never "toss"...."trade"!!!!!!
Martin Eastburn
2016-07-16 00:02:14 UTC
Permalink
See if you can use 357 shells in both series simply load with different
power loads. 38 for 38 and 357 or less for the 357.

Some might complain about the longer cartage but the barrel is the same
and would hold the pressure back for the bullet. It does fill the
chamber deeper and makes the chamber smaller by doing so...

Martin
Don Bruder
2016-07-16 09:59:12 UTC
Permalink
In article <nmbti6$nb7$***@news.albasani.net>,
Martin Eastburn <***@consolidated.net> wrote:

# See if you can use 357 shells in both series simply load with different
# power loads. 38 for 38 and 357 or less for the 357.
#
# Some might complain about the longer cartage but the barrel is the same
# and would hold the pressure back for the bullet. It does fill the
# chamber deeper and makes the chamber smaller by doing so...

Just the other night, I was demonstrating the similarities and
differences between .38 Special (my carry gun) and .357 Mag (A buddy's
carry piece) to a gun newbie. Of course, dropping my .38 loads into his
.357 went without the slightest hitch, while trying to drop .357 rounds
into my .38 refused to let the cylinder close - Exactly as I expected.

What I didn't expect was that they didn't protrude out the front, but
"stood proud" of the back of the cylinder. Looking closer, while there
was barely a fraction of difference (according to eyeball Mk. 1) in the
case lengths, there was a significantly thicker rim on the .357 round
than the .38. Enough for the rims to bind solid enough between cylinder
and frame that the cylinder couldn't get anywhere near closed. Yes, I am
aware that .357 Mag isn't supposed to fit into a .38 Special, which is
precisely what I was demonstrating, and I'm aware it's by design. What I
wasn't aware of was that it was due to the rims - For some reason, I
always thought it was the longer overall case length. How that got by me
all these years, I'll never understand... Just goes to show that it IS
always possible to learn something new, I guess :)
Ralph Mowery
2016-07-16 18:36:11 UTC
Permalink
When the 357 and later on the 44 mag was made, the cases were made about
a tenth of an inch longer to prevent the more powerful round from going
into the weaker gun.

The rims should be the same size. Try cutting down an old 357 case and
see if it will fit. I bet it does if you cut off say about .2 or more
inches off the case.

Some people will take the 357 that has small splits in the mouth and cut
it down to use in the 38s. Not someting I would do, but somewhat safe
as the case will be marked 357 and would normally be used in a 357.
That way a weker load would be fired in a stronger gun.

If you look at the chamber of them you will see the cylinder is not
bored all the way through the same diameter. Near the end there is a
part that is slightly smaller. That is what keeps the longer round from
going all the way in.

While not advised, a good many years ago when the 357s were hard to come
by some were having the cylinder bored all the way through on the 38s
so they would take the 357. With the modern guns it may be ok to fire a
cylinder or two through it with the more powerful round. Something I
would not do.
Don Bruder
2016-07-16 22:05:00 UTC
Permalink
In article <nmduqr$ca3$***@news.albasani.net>,
Ralph Mowery <***@earthlink.net> wrote:

# When the 357 and later on the 44 mag was made, the cases were made about
# a tenth of an inch longer to prevent the more powerful round from going
# into the weaker gun.
#
# The rims should be the same size. Try cutting down an old 357 case and
# see if it will fit. I bet it does if you cut off say about .2 or more
# inches off the case.

I realize what you're saying, and I'm not arguing with it. At the same
time, I bloody well know what I was seeing. The rims on the .357 Mag
rounds I was handling were *EASILY* twice the thickness of the rims on
my .38 Special rounds. MAYBE even 2.5 times as thick. I'd have to put
hands on a micrometer to be more precise than that. The cases were so
close to the same length overall (not the bullets in 'em - the cases
themselves) that while you COULD see a difference if you went looking
for it, it wasn't "jump out and wave a flag at you" obvious - It would
be easy to overlook at a casual glance. The difference between the rims,
on the other hand, was screamingly obvious once you set the two rounds
side by side under even halfway decent light.

As to the cylinder not being bored through, that was one of the first
things I wondered about. And almost immediately proved to my own
satisfaction couldn't possibly be true - Stuffing one of my buddy's .357
Mag rounds, and one of my .38 Special rounds, into the cylinder
backwards (from the front of the cylinder) was easily accomplished - No
binding, blockage, or resistance. Both rounds just slipped right in.
Thinking it was a fluke, I repeated the "backwards loading" in all six
holes, with the same results - Both rounds dropped right in, no
resistance, no binding, no sign that there was even a hint of an
obstruction.

And before you ask, no - As far as I know, nothing has been done to my
gun to make such an ammo swap possible. And further, no, there isn't any
noticeable "slop" - Each round fits nice and snug in the cylinder. Not
so snug it binds (At least, not until after being fired - then the fit
is stiff enough that the ejector is needed) but not at all "wobbly".
--
Brought to you by the letter Q and the number .357
Security provided by Horace S. & Dan W.
Ralph Mowery
2016-07-16 23:33:10 UTC
Permalink
# And before you ask, no - As far as I know, nothing has been done to my
# gun to make such an ammo swap possible. And further, no, there isn't any
# noticeable "slop" - Each round fits nice and snug in the cylinder. Not
# so snug it binds (At least, not until after being fired - then the fit
# is stiff enough that the ejector is needed) but not at all "wobbly".

That sure seems odd to me. I am not doubting what you are reporting
back. If the rims are twice as thick the cases does not meet the SAAMI
specs. The 38 rim should be .060 inches thick and the 357 .059. With a
..011 under allowed for both. That would make them almost the same,
especially to the eye.

What brand of ammo and gun do you have ? Seems that the 38 rims must be
very thin compaired to the SAAMI standard.

I looked the 3 I have, a Tarus 38 and 2 S&W. They are all about 35 to
40 years old. In no one can I insert a case from the barrel end of the
cylinder. The Tarus and one of the S&W the cylinder did not have the
recessed cut out for the rims and the other S&W did. Not sure what the
correct term is for the cylinder that has that recess cut out for the
rims so they are flush with the back of the cylinder.

Looking at the tightness of all 3, it is difficult to see how the gun
could close the cylinder or even turn if the rims were too thick.

Did you try inserting the ammo backwards in your friends gun ?
Gunner Asch
2016-07-16 18:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Its NOT due to the rim thickness. Its supposed to be due to a slight
forcing cone inside the cylinder. Most 38 Spec and 357 Mag have
identical rim thicknesses. I just went out after my eyebrows raised up
and miced a dozen or so cases in both calibers...minor
changes..nothing of any note.

One of my 38/44 Outdoorsman was bored to accept 357 mag
cartridges..the rest are not, and when putting a 357 in the bored
weapon..it closes properly on any case inserted. It will also nearly
close on 357 Rem Maximum cases..but wont... because bullet protrudes
from cylinder

The person doing the modification didnt leave any forcing cone in the
cylinder of the Outdoorsman



Gunner
Frank
2016-07-18 19:24:24 UTC
Permalink
On 7/14/2016 5:12 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
# ## There is a case where two different rounds work. I have a 357 revolver
# ## which CAN fire 38 special rounds. There is an issue though - if you have
# ## folks fire a 38 series, then a 357 series, I found the gun would not
# ## load a round in every chamber without being cleaned out first.
# ##
# ## Brian W
# ##
# #
# #I hated to toss brass that was lasting forever but tossed my 38 and 44
# #specials a few year ago because of the ring problem. No problem
# #downloading the magnum calibers and not getting those damn rings.
#
# You 'tossed it?"??? Blink blink....huh?
#
# Whatever for? Never "toss"...."trade"!!!!!!
#

Actually I bagged it and left it at the club's pistol range. Figured
someone in the club who found it would put it to good use.

I often come back from the range with more brass than I used.
Larry Fishel
2016-12-11 20:53:47 UTC
Permalink
I'm late to this discussion, so forgive me if it's been resolved.

Please, look up the specs for .38 sp and .357 mag rounds, carefully read the
headstamps, and borrow a micrometer if you don't have one. Something is seriously
askew. A .357 mag case is visibly longer than a .38 special case and the rim
thicknesses diffrer by .002 in. I'd be very interested to see what you really have...
Martin Eastburn
2016-12-13 10:27:46 UTC
Permalink
My Thompson pistol shoots both.

The .357 is longer. the .38 fouls the chamber as it blasts out
burnt powder off the end of the .38 into the chamber. Since there
is room for the .357 to slide in and the case is longer - the location
of where the case sits is fouled. Best to shoot the other order.

Since ranges do what they want, get two guns or clean with a appropriate
process and go for the gold.

I load 357 and 38 into the same case. Cheat. But I'm not shooting on a
line for points. I did but no longer. Use what the book wants in .35
bullets and have the loads matching the bullets and after a while the
longer case will be normalized in the loading - to make a .38 out of a
..357 case.

Martin


On 12/11/2016 2:53 PM, Larry Fishel wrote:
# I'm late to this discussion, so forgive me if it's been resolved.
#
# Please, look up the specs for .38 sp and .357 mag rounds, carefully read the
# headstamps, and borrow a micrometer if you don't have one. Something is seriously
# askew. A .357 mag case is visibly longer than a .38 special case and the rim
# thicknesses diffrer by .002 in. I'd be very interested to see what you really have...
#
Frank
2016-12-20 20:26:07 UTC
Permalink
On 12/13/2016 5:27 AM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
# My Thompson pistol shoots both.
#
# The .357 is longer. the .38 fouls the chamber as it blasts out
# burnt powder off the end of the .38 into the chamber. Since there
# is room for the .357 to slide in and the case is longer - the location
# of where the case sits is fouled. Best to shoot the other order.
#
# Since ranges do what they want, get two guns or clean with a appropriate
# process and go for the gold.
#
# I load 357 and 38 into the same case. Cheat. But I'm not shooting on a
# line for points. I did but no longer. Use what the book wants in .35
# bullets and have the loads matching the bullets and after a while the
# longer case will be normalized in the loading - to make a .38 out of a
# ..357 case.
#
# Martin
#
#
# On 12/11/2016 2:53 PM, Larry Fishel wrote:
# # I'm late to this discussion, so forgive me if it's been resolved.
# #
# # Please, look up the specs for .38 sp and .357 mag rounds, carefully read the
# # headstamps, and borrow a micrometer if you don't have one. Something is seriously
# # askew. A .357 mag case is visibly longer than a .38 special case and the rim
# # thicknesses diffrer by .002 in. I'd be very interested to see what you really have...
# #
#

Already mentioned what I did in getting rid of all my .38 and .44
special cases because of this. The fouling appears far worse than just
plain lead fouling in that it is very difficult to remove. One guy even
told me he used a micro torch and optics to closely see what he was
doing just to remove it. Reloaders have no problem just using the
longer case with reduced loads.

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