Discussion:
vz 52 7.62x45 issues
(too old to reply)
CS
2010-08-22 18:24:59 UTC
Permalink
I got this rifle about 10 years ago, couldn't find ammo, so I disassembled
it and stuck it in the garage.

Yesterday I got it out, reassembled it, and started looking for ammo.

No ammo.

At least, not reasonably priced. I found one site where 20 rounds goes for
$50. Perhaps that is reasonable for this hard-to-find caliber, but that's
out of my price range for recreational shooting. I don't reload, and I
don't want to reload. Not enough space, time, or patience.

So, any suggestions on what to do?

Right now I have three plans:

1) I have a friend who reloads. Next time I see him I'll ask him what's
involved in hooking me up. He's also a gun nut, so he may either have the
stuff already or might want the rifle for himself. Possibly.

2) Find a pretty stock, which is ironically easier than finding ammo, stick
the bolt in the safe, and hang the rifle on the wall as decoration. Perhaps
in the next few years a massive secret stash of ammo or VZ 52's will be
found in a Bulgarian basement, and I'll be ahead of the game. Or not, and
I'll just have a pretty decoration.

3) Sell it. I hate selling guns, and I'll probably really hate selling this
one. I wouldn't sell it myself, but go to Turners and put it on
consignment. I don't expect to get anything for it, and I don't like
'issues' like this dragging on for months/years/lifetimes with no
resolution.

I guess a potential #4 would be to wait for the next 'food for guns' or
whatever program to come along and trade it for a stupid gift card.
Frankly, I don't believe they work, I don't like the idea of people trading
their freedom for crap, and I don't like the idea of an old military rifle
ending up in a scrap heap while chickenshit liberal pussies cheer on. Screw
that, I'd rather start reloading.

Anyway, I'm not a "collector" and I really don't like owning guns that can't
be used.

Any ideas?

CS


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RosemontCrest
2010-08-22 23:33:15 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 22, 11:24 am, "CS" <***@sears.com> wrote:
# I got this rifle about 10 years ago, couldn't find ammo, so I disassembled
# it and stuck it in the garage.
#
# Yesterday I got it out, reassembled it, and started looking for ammo.
#
# No ammo.
#
# At least, not reasonably priced.  I found one site where 20 rounds goes for
# $50.  Perhaps that is reasonable for this hard-to-find caliber, but that's
# out of my price range for recreational shooting.  I don't reload, and I
# don't want to reload.  Not enough space, time, or patience.
#
# So, any suggestions on what to do?

While not exactly inexpensive, I did find 7.62x45 ammunition for sale
here at $48 for 90 rounds:

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=289&idcategory=12

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2g4qtur

That's nearly 1/5 the price that you quoted. Buy two at twice the cost
and save on shipping. ;-)

Good luck.


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Gunner Asch
2010-08-22 23:33:17 UTC
Permalink
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9726297&oh=216543

Though Id think it would be easily treated like a wildcat and you could
make your own cases and reload your own

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-26195.html


Everything you need to know...

http://mauser98.com/vz52.html


http://www.mauser98.com/brass.html


Gunner

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Gray Ghost
2010-08-23 01:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Yes. send it to me. We take in stray animals and firearms. We promise to
lavish love and excellent care on all comers and to never send them on to
another. Ask the dogs, they'll tell ya. Fella dropped a rat terrier off on our
road. She ran to our house (we think there is a secret network out there
telling other dogs about us), at 10 happy pounds she about rules the place
over much larger dogs. Never saw a tail wag quite that fast.

We give as good care to the firearms.


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Martin H. Eastburn
2010-08-23 01:30:45 UTC
Permalink
When I started shooting a wildcat in my pistol - it took a .223
that I resided the neck to 6.5mm for my Thompson. I can convert .223
but that is stress on the cases and thins them out.

I went and had custom made cases for myself and anyone - with my head stamp
6.5mm TC/U for the head stamp. Now others can buy it - I paid for the
custom creation dies to draw the cartridge and head stamp.

If it is as easy as that, get some shells made or see if there are some already!
They won't be on the local shelf.

Quality Cartridge (2009 prices!! ) phone 301 373 3719 phone / fax
www.qual-cart.com

caliber /bx empty Hornady....various Barnes rounds ... Hor..Norma...

7.62x45 Czech (6)(10) 20 $48.97 $73.97 $88.97 $103.97 $83.97 $88.97 $78.97
$75.97 $103.97

If you reload - 20 cases for $49 while loaded shells start in the 70's.
Reloading dies are likely available but if not, they load shells.


Martin


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s***@prolynx.com
2010-08-23 18:35:41 UTC
Permalink
It's an orphan round, nothing really close that it could be made from
and the Czechs quit manufacturing it when they were forced to go to
7.62x39 guns by the Soviets. Had about 3-4 years production on it.
What ammo was left after the Cold War Commie giveaways was shipped
over here with what was left of the rifles. At this point the guns
are Cold War souvenir wall-hangers and the ammo is getting to be
collectable, as you've found. Owners have shot it all off and there's
no more to be had. Czechs were the only makers.

The Czechs converted/manufactured some in 7.62x39, not sure exactly
what was involved, IIRC, called the Cz 52/57. They might have just
rebarreled or have redone springs as well. Not a real practical deal
unless you like interminable projects because you can probably get an
SKS cheaper than what it's going to cost in time to get it converted.

No way of reloading the original round, all ammo was Berdan primed(and
corrosive, hope you've followed the corrosive cleaning drill). So
reloading is out, unless somebody makes a special run of Boxer-primed
cases. Not likely to happen, but stranger things have shown up. If
you were an ace machinist, you coud probably carve some cases out from
solid brass, has been done before.

The gas system is unique, some collector will probably go for it if
it's in really good condition. It's a nifty little carbine, just
chock full of Middle European engineering. For wall hanger duty, no
reason to pull the bolt, after all, nothing else will fit for ammo.

Stan



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Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
2010-08-24 01:34:22 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 23, 12:35 pm, ***@prolynx.com wrote:
# No way of reloading the original round, all ammo was Berdan primed(and
# corrosive, hope you've followed the corrosive cleaning drill).  So
# reloading is out, unless somebody makes a special run of Boxer-primed
# cases.

Not true - first, get a berdan decapping tool here:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=245983

Get your berdan primers here:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/22284

Some people prefer to drill out the anvil in the berdan case so that
it will work with boxer primers. I'm not enthusiastic about that
method.


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s***@prolynx.com
2010-08-25 19:51:12 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 23, 7:34 pm, Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:
# On Aug 23, 12:35 pm, ***@prolynx.com wrote:
# # No way of reloading the original round, all ammo was Berdan primed(and
# # corrosive, hope you've followed the corrosive cleaning drill).  So
# # reloading is out, unless somebody makes a special run of Boxer-primed
# # cases.
#
# Not true - first, get a berdan decapping tool here:http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=245983
#
# Get your berdan primers here:http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/22284
#
# Some people prefer to drill out the anvil in the berdan case so that
# it will work with boxer primers. I'm not enthusiastic about that
# method.
#
Berdan caps are much shorter than US Boxer primers, so drilling the
pocket out is a non-starter, the meat isn't there in the case to do
that. There are like 6 different sizes of Berdan primers, too,
chances of having a pocket that matches one of the two sizes of Boxer
primers is fairly remote. Earl Naramore related in one of his books
how he turned down heads from surplus .30-06 brass so he had a supply
of primer pockets, then bored out Berdan cases to match and soft-
soldered the pockets in. Lots of work, but was what he had to do to
get some of the old proprietary rifle rounds reloadable. He said it
worked fine.

I've messed with reloading Berdan priming, best tool to use is an awl
or ice pick with a flat ground onto one side. Plunk the case into a
suitable hole in a wood block held in a vise, take the awl with the
flat side upwards, punch it in at a shallow angle on one side of the
cap and lever the thing out. Have to try to stay away from the anvil
in the center, small nicks are OK, a big gouge means a scrapper. Then
you have to get the thing reprimed. I've got a set of Berdan priming
posts for an RCBS press, but the bigger primers won't go through the
hole in the shell holder. The ones I had needed a cupped post, too, a
flat-faced one won't do. So just because you've got the thing
decapped doesn't mean that your troubles are over. Since the military
cases have primers that are crimped in, the fun is just beginning.

Stan


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Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
2010-08-25 20:06:13 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 25, 1:51 pm, ***@prolynx.com wrote:
# the fun is just beginning.

Reloading berdan cases must be at least doable, or Midway would not be
continuing to sell all the tools for doing it, RCBS would not be
continuing to manufacture the tools and dies, and Grafs would not be
continuing to carry the berdan primers. These big companies don't do
this kind of stuff for it's amusement value.


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Alex Cunningham
2010-09-03 00:30:23 UTC
Permalink
#<***@prolynx.com> wrote:
# It's an orphan round, nothing really close that it could be made from
# and the Czechs quit manufacturing it when they were forced to go to
# 7.62x39 guns by the Soviets.

My copy of The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions gives a process
for making the brass from .220 Swift.


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Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
2010-08-23 18:35:47 UTC
Permalink
I have read that http://www.mcace.com can make a chamber insert that
allows the use of common 7.62x39 ammunition in this gun.


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s***@prolynx.com
2010-08-25 19:51:09 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 23, 12:35 pm, Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:
# I have read thathttp://www.mcace.comcan make a chamber insert that
# allows the use of common 7.62x39 ammunition in this gun.
#
Probably will work about as well as the ones they used to convert
Garands to 7.62 NATO. It'll work until the fired case pulls the
insert out. The next round will either go click or be verrry
interesting when it goes off. Neither prospect does much for
marksmanship, always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Stan


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Gunner Asch
2010-08-26 12:31:16 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 19:51:09 +0000 (UTC), ***@prolynx.com wrote:

#On Aug 23, 12:35 pm, Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley <***@yahoo.com>
#wrote:
## I have read thathttp://www.mcace.comcan make a chamber insert that
## allows the use of common 7.62x39 ammunition in this gun.
##
#Probably will work about as well as the ones they used to convert
#Garands to 7.62 NATO. It'll work until the fired case pulls the
#insert out. The next round will either go click or be verrry
#interesting when it goes off. Neither prospect does much for
#marksmanship, always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
#
#Stan

Or one can simply solder or bond the insert into the chamber. Its not
rocket science with todays bonding agents and solders


Gunner


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n***@yahoo.com
2010-08-23 18:36:02 UTC
Permalink
# I got this rifle about 10 years ago, couldn't find ammo

# So, any suggestions on what to do?

Blame the Czechs for insisting on their own carbine cartridge, but the
vz52 is as heavy, clunky, and obsolete as the SKS _and_ expensive to
feed. That's a poor combination.

# 1) I have a friend who reloads.  Next time I see him I'll ask him what's
# involved in hooking me up.  He's also a gun nut, so he may either have the
# stuff already or might want the rifle for himself.  Possibly.

That's a lot of work for very little return. Proably cheaper to buy
an SKS and a pallet of 7.62x39

# 2) Find a pretty stock, which is ironically easier than finding ammo, stick
# the bolt in the safe, and hang the rifle on the wall as decoration...
# I'll just have a pretty decoration.

Unless you got a very special one, "pretty" is not a word that comes
to mind

# 3) Sell it.  

Good luck with that, unless you find a Czech arms collector looking
for a pretty cz52

# I guess a potential #4 would be to wait for the next 'food for guns' or
# whatever program to come along and trade it for a stupid gift card.
# Frankly, I don't believe they work, I don't like the idea of people trading
# their freedom for crap

Try to be positive. Think of it as trading tired, clunky, obsolete,
and expensive to feed crap for usable cash...a tax rebate even.


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Giampingjack
2010-08-23 21:47:34 UTC
Permalink
for direct experience of my friend, a solution suggested by some our gun
Magazines, I think Armi e Tiro www.armietiro.it :
You can use the 6,5 carcano brass avaible from norma ( expensive) or Prvi
Partisan ( I dont' know Us importer ) or Starline.
cut at 45 mm , expand the neck whit the standard neck die for this caliber,
and fire forming
You must use .311 bulletts , of 130 grains the same of the 7,62x39


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Giampingjack
2010-08-23 21:47:36 UTC
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ps: oil the brass outside and insede the neck before reforming


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Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
2010-08-24 01:34:24 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 22, 12:24 pm, "CS" <***@sears.com> wrote:
# 1) I have a friend who reloads.  Next time I see him I'll ask him what's
# involved in hooking me up.  He's also a gun nut, so he may either have the
# stuff already or might want the rifle for himself.  Possibly.

Here you go
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/berdanreloading/index.asp


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a***@gmail.com
2017-04-17 10:14:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, August 22, 2010 at 1:24:59 PM UTC-5, CS wrote:
# I got this rifle about 10 years ago, couldn't find ammo, so I disassembled
# it and stuck it in the garage.
#
# Yesterday I got it out, reassembled it, and started looking for ammo.
#
# No ammo.
#
# At least, not reasonably priced. I found one site where 20 rounds goes for
# $50. Perhaps that is reasonable for this hard-to-find caliber, but that's
# out of my price range for recreational shooting. I don't reload, and I
# don't want to reload. Not enough space, time, or patience.
#
# So, any suggestions on what to do?
#
# Right now I have three plans:
#
# 1) I have a friend who reloads. Next time I see him I'll ask him what's
# involved in hooking me up. He's also a gun nut, so he may either have the
# stuff already or might want the rifle for himself. Possibly.
#
# 2) Find a pretty stock, which is ironically easier than finding ammo, stick
# the bolt in the safe, and hang the rifle on the wall as decoration. Perhaps
# in the next few years a massive secret stash of ammo or VZ 52's will be
# found in a Bulgarian basement, and I'll be ahead of the game. Or not, and
# I'll just have a pretty decoration.
#
# 3) Sell it. I hate selling guns, and I'll probably really hate selling this
# one. I wouldn't sell it myself, but go to Turners and put it on
# consignment. I don't expect to get anything for it, and I don't like
# 'issues' like this dragging on for months/years/lifetimes with no
# resolution.
#
# I guess a potential #4 would be to wait for the next 'food for guns' or
# whatever program to come along and trade it for a stupid gift card.
# Frankly, I don't believe they work, I don't like the idea of people trading
# their freedom for crap, and I don't like the idea of an old military rifle
# ending up in a scrap heap while chickenshit liberal pussies cheer on. Screw
# that, I'd rather start reloading.
#
# Anyway, I'm not a "collector" and I really don't like owning guns that can't
# be used.
#
# Any ideas?


Did you ever sale the gun? Is the bore bright and well groved?
Gunner Asch
2017-04-17 11:56:49 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:14:48 +0000 (UTC), ***@gmail.com wrote:

#On Sunday, August 22, 2010 at 1:24:59 PM UTC-5, CS wrote:
## I got this rifle about 10 years ago, couldn't find ammo, so I disassembled
## it and stuck it in the garage.
##
## Yesterday I got it out, reassembled it, and started looking for ammo.
##
## No ammo.
##
## At least, not reasonably priced. I found one site where 20 rounds goes for
## $50. Perhaps that is reasonable for this hard-to-find caliber, but that's
## out of my price range for recreational shooting. I don't reload, and I
## don't want to reload. Not enough space, time, or patience.
##
## So, any suggestions on what to do?
##
## Right now I have three plans:
##
## 1) I have a friend who reloads. Next time I see him I'll ask him what's
## involved in hooking me up. He's also a gun nut, so he may either have the
## stuff already or might want the rifle for himself. Possibly.
##
## 2) Find a pretty stock, which is ironically easier than finding ammo, stick
## the bolt in the safe, and hang the rifle on the wall as decoration. Perhaps
## in the next few years a massive secret stash of ammo or VZ 52's will be
## found in a Bulgarian basement, and I'll be ahead of the game. Or not, and
## I'll just have a pretty decoration.
##
## 3) Sell it. I hate selling guns, and I'll probably really hate selling this
## one. I wouldn't sell it myself, but go to Turners and put it on
## consignment. I don't expect to get anything for it, and I don't like
## 'issues' like this dragging on for months/years/lifetimes with no
## resolution.
##
## I guess a potential #4 would be to wait for the next 'food for guns' or
## whatever program to come along and trade it for a stupid gift card.
## Frankly, I don't believe they work, I don't like the idea of people trading
## their freedom for crap, and I don't like the idea of an old military rifle
## ending up in a scrap heap while chickenshit liberal pussies cheer on. Screw
## that, I'd rather start reloading.
##
## Anyway, I'm not a "collector" and I really don't like owning guns that can't
## be used.
##
## Any ideas?
#
#
#Did you ever sale the gun? Is the bore bright and well groved?

I had one of these, and about 300 rds of ammo. It shot poorly to
"soso" and when I was down to 50 rds of ammo, I swapped it off at the
gunshow. Ive never even thought of it until reading this 7 yr old
thread.

It wasnt much of a rifle.

Gunner

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