Discussion:
Accurate 7.62x39mm Gun?
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Daniel Titley
2018-10-21 21:46:55 UTC
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What is the best gun for getting the most accuracy (especially at longer range) out
of military 7.62x39mm Soviet ammunition?
pyotr filipivich
2018-10-22 08:55:25 UTC
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Daniel Titley <***@gmail.com> on Sun, 21 Oct 2018 21:46:55 +0000
(UTC) typed in rec.guns the following:
#What is the best gun for getting the most accuracy (especially at longer range) out
#of military 7.62x39mm Soviet ammunition?

Probably a bolt action rifle. Possibly even one which was custom
built. As in "Take a 2.2 pound block of steel for the receiver, and a
mill...."
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
WangoTango
2018-10-29 19:43:14 UTC
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In article <pqk39t$qmh$***@news.albasani.net>, ***@mindspring.com
says...
# Daniel Titley <***@gmail.com> on Sun, 21 Oct 2018 21:46:55 +0000
# (UTC) typed in rec.guns the following:
# #What is the best gun for getting the most accuracy (especially at longer range) out
# #of military 7.62x39mm Soviet ammunition?
#
# Probably a bolt action rifle. Possibly even one which was custom
# built. As in "Take a 2.2 pound block of steel for the receiver, and a
# mill...."

CZ Makes a nice one with a single set trigger.
john moore
2018-10-29 21:41:56 UTC
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On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 5:46:57 PM UTC-4, Daniel Titley wrote:
# What is the best gun for getting the most accuracy (especially at longer range) out
# of military 7.62x39mm Soviet ammunition?

I'm separated from my reference library these past few years but I recall
a piece in an late 1980s or possibly early '90s Gun Digest, possibly by Ed
Harris IIRC about a 7.62x39 bolt rifle from Sako (pronounced 'socko'). A
Mauser actioned rifle that the reviewer thought well of
Expecting much in the way of accuracy from military ammo might be unreasonable
though. Witness the terrible accuracy from those 150g FMJ .308 bullets
obtainable bulk from Midway (M-60 bullets I figure, in retrospect). What else
is going to fire a 150g full patch bullet? The experience made a loyal Matchking
user of me though.
Good luck.

John
TimR
2018-10-30 12:24:06 UTC
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On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:41:58 PM UTC-4, john moore wrote:
# though. Witness the terrible accuracy from those 150g FMJ .308 bullets
# obtainable bulk from Midway (M-60 bullets I figure, in retrospect). What else
# is going to fire a 150g full patch bullet? The experience made a loyal
# John

I have read that machine gun ammo is supposed to vary to give more dispersion,
since a machine gun is essentially an area weapon, not intended to be a
point (precision) weapon.

I have not been able to verify that and actually have trouble imagining how
a manufacturer would produce that, nor how a quality controller inspector
for DoD would verify they had. So I'd be interested if anyone has any real
data. Sorry to veer off topic a bit.
pyotr filipivich
2018-10-30 15:50:02 UTC
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TimR <***@aol.com> on Tue, 30 Oct 2018 12:24:06 +0000 (UTC)
typed in rec.guns the following:
#On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:41:58 PM UTC-4, john moore wrote:
## though. Witness the terrible accuracy from those 150g FMJ .308 bullets
## obtainable bulk from Midway (M-60 bullets I figure, in retrospect). What else
## is going to fire a 150g full patch bullet? The experience made a loyal
## John
#
#I have read that machine gun ammo is supposed to vary to give more dispersion,
#since a machine gun is essentially an area weapon, not intended to be a
#point (precision) weapon.

I suspect that people are blaming the ammo for what is a function
of the firearms (I.e., how often is a machine gun fired from a bench
rest? How many points of variance are there for a machine gun,
especially one on a mount? The gun moves left to right as well as up
and down, there is the "flinch" of the hand holding the triggers, plus
all the moving parts in the firearm itself.)

#
#I have not been able to verify that and actually have trouble imagining how
#a manufacturer would produce that, nor how a quality controller inspector
#for DoD would verify they had. So I'd be interested if anyone has any real
# data. Sorry to veer off topic a bit.

I am also suspecting that people are blaming "ex-machine gun
ammo" for their own bad aim.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
john moore
2018-11-07 23:57:24 UTC
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On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 5:46:57 PM UTC-4, Daniel Titley wrote:
# What is the best gun for getting the most accuracy (especially at longer
range) out=20
# of military 7.62x39mm Soviet ammunition?
< pyotr filipivich wrote> I am also suspecting that people
are blaming "ex-machine gun ammo" for their own bad aim.
#> <John Moore wrote>
#>Witness the terrible accuracy from those 150g FMJ .308 bullets
obtainable bulk from Midway (M-60 bullets I figure, in retrospect). What else
is going to fire a 150g full patch bullet? The experience made a loyal Matchking
user of me though. <<

Back around 1994 (I've been a rec.gunner for a while) there was positive
talk on the group about the Savage 110FP. I was curious to try a bolt action
.308 and bought one, my first serious scoped bolt-rifle. Not Knowing any
better and figuring (incorrectly, needless to say) that bullets were bullets,
I acquired some of Midway's bulk full patch .308 150g bullets. I tried
varying loads, all of that 'work up a load' business and saw consistent 3-3.5
inch groups at 60 yards and thought that there must be something wrong with the
rifle.
While at a gun show I spent about US $18 on a box of Sierra 168g Matchking bullets,
chuckling at my purchase of the 'gourmet' bullets when the Midway's had been only
about US $5.00/100. As a lark I loaded up 10 of the 'gourmet' bullets over some
unremembered powder charge and included them with my latest batch of work-up loads
when I next went to the range. After firing more of those blasted 150g full
patch .308's, and seeing the same 3-3.5" groups (off of a sturdy bench on sandbags),
I happened to try a 5 shot string of the Sierra's. Results, a 5/8 inch group!
I was literally ecstatic, jumping up and exclaiming loudly.
I moved out to the 120 yrd backer and groups printed ~1.5".
I learned a lot about bullet quality with that rifle. I own 5 scoped bolt
rifles in .308 now plus 2 NM M1As and won't send anything but a Sierra MatchKing
down the barrel of any of them.
The point that I was making to the OP (possibly a bit to obliquely for you) was
to not expect gilt-edged accuracy from bulk military ammo.
BTW, what else but military 7.62 is going to be loaded with .308 150g full patch?

John
c***@gmail.com
2018-11-07 23:57:25 UTC
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On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:46:57 PM UTC-7, Daniel Titley wrote:
# What is the best gun for getting the most accuracy (especially at longer range) out
# of military 7.62x39mm Soviet ammunition?

I have scope mounted, glass bedded, trigger job, careful handloads, and the SKS and AK will not shoot good groups. I have build a Mauser single shot in 7.62x39, but have not shot it yet.

I did rebarrel a Mosin Nagant with a 223 bull barrel, and got tiny groups.
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